OptimistPrime recieves pen, continues to head towards 2 other boats. Beigel watches the incedent take place and protests OP. tgso and SnakePit are affected by optimist prime to the extent where Beigel passes and finishes ahead of all 3 of them. She does not comply with R44.2 and only spins once for her R15 breach.

System Info:


pen: none
spin: none

Don't know enough to comment on the end part. The gybe was obviously a mistake and I did my turns for it.

AFTER you caused tgso to foul you and slowing SnakePit down...

this topic has been listed as closed, no show, but he did show ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
no moderators have commented yet either

This protest is still in 48hr pre-hearing status.

Aloha!

i posted it 3 days ago

Strange - when I posted it showed as still being within the 48hr pre-hearing period. Now the time says Beigel submitted 4 days 10 hours ago... Weird!

The racelet is broken and not showing. As per R61.2.b a suitable racelet is required for a protest to be valid.

Beigel please post a new racelet. Thanks!

here ya go!!!

bop bop bop, bop to the top!!!

t=367.5 OptimistPrime (OP) passes Dead Downwind and has gybed onto starboard just to leeward of SnakePit. OP acquires ROW and R15 applies to him. He must give room to SnakePit to keep clear.
t=368.8 contact occurs after OP luffs up to greenline. Although the luff is part of the auto feature of a sailx gybe, OP must still give SnakePit room to keep clear.
t=371.6 contact occurs between tgs0 and SnakePit. tgs0 is on port and breaks R10.
t=372.1 contact occurs between tgs0 and OP. tgs0 is windward keep clear boat and is not keeping clear.
t=373.1 tgs0 initiates a gybe and contact occurs between SnakePit and tgs0. tgs0 breaks R11.
t=376.5 OP initiates a penalty turn.


Rules:
10
11
15
16.1


Facts:
1) OP breaks R15 or R16.1 by gybing so close to leeward of SnakePit and changing course and not giving SP room to keep clear.
2) OP spins a penalty turn. He spins 9 seconds after the incident and was probably trying to disengage from the other boats before spinning.
3) SnakePit breaks R11 but was compelled to do so by OP breaking R15/R16 so gets exonerated by R64.1.c.
4) tgs0 is on port and breaks R10 on contact with SnakePit - he owes one spin.
5) tgs0 does not keep clear of ROW boat OP so breaks R11 - he owes 2 spins.
6) tgs0 gybes into SnakePit and breaks R11 - he owes 3 spins.
7) tgs0 crosses the finish line and then spins once. This does not exonerate him for all his rules breaches.


Discussion:
OP breaks R15/R16 and is tangled up with SnakePit. Tgs0 compounds the situation by colliding with the ROW starboard tack boats and breaking R10.
As soon as OP gets clear he spins so it could be said he complies with R44.2.


Decision:
OptimistPrime breaks R15/R16.1 spins to exonerate - Protest dismissed.
SnakePit breaks R11 but was compelled to do so, so gets exonerated by R64.1.c.
tgs0 breaks R10 and R11 twice only spins once so gets a DSQ and -300 points.




Beigel - Please send a PM to both SnakePit and Tgs0 to let them know that they are parties to this protest and they have 24hrs to post comments if they wish. Please give them a link to the protest. Thanks!

Aloha!

there is no need to bring in other boats. the fact is OP did not sail well clear ASAP. since OP has a pending penalty(ies) she is expected to spin ASAP without effecting othr boats as per R21.2

Rules that should be included:

21.2
A boat taking a penalty shall keep clear of one that is not.

44.2
One-Turn and Two-Turns Penalties
After getting well clear of other boats as soon after the incident as
possible, a boat takes a One-Turn or Two-Turns Penalty by promptly
making the required number of turns in the same direction, each turn
including one tack and one gybe. When a boat takes the penalty at or
near the finishing line, she shall sail completely to the course side of
the line before finishing.

Beigel wrote:
since OP has a pending penalty(ies) she is expected to spin ASAP without effecting othr boats as per R21.2

Incorrect. Look at the wording of Rule 21.2. This states that "a boat TAKING a penalty..." So, this is when the boat is ACTUALLY spinning. Not when it is penned and needing to spin.




Rules that should be included:

21.2
A boat taking a penalty shall keep clear of one that is not.

44.2
One-Turn and Two-Turns Penalties
After getting well clear of other boats as soon after the incident as
possible, a boat takes a One-Turn or Two-Turns Penalty by promptly
making the required number of turns in the same direction, each turn
including one tack and one gybe. When a boat takes the penalty at or
near the finishing line, she shall sail completely to the course side of
the line before finishing.

Beigel wrote:
.there is no need to bring in other boats. the fact is OP did not sail well clear ASAP. since OP has a pending penalty(ies) she is expected to spin ASAP without effecting othr boats as per R21.2

Rules that should be included:

21.2
A boat taking a penalty shall keep clear of one that is not.

44.2
One-Turn and Two-Turns Penalties
After getting well clear of other boats as soon after the incident as
possible, a boat takes a One-Turn or Two-Turns Penalty by promptly
making the required number of turns in the same direction, each turn
including one tack and one gybe. When a boat takes the penalty at or
near the finishing line, she shall sail completely to the course side of
the line before finishing.

Beigel please send the PM's as requested.

This is not a discussion but an official request by the Protest Committee. Non compliance will result in this protest being thrown out and you being given a sailx penalty of -300 points.

Okole, i have sent the Private Messages even though i do not believe it is necessary they get involved

Listen Beigel. The Protest Committee has found that a boat that is not a party to this protest has broken a rule, and one that is not party to the protest is also involved. It is correct procedure to inform them and have them join in this hearing.

It is also the duty of the PC, as per The Basic Principle, to protest when it sees a boat that is not party to the protest break a rule. I don't care what your personal opinion is here, the PC is acting according to the ISAF RRS and you probably should take this occasion to learn something.

Please re-read my ruling above with your rule book open at the relevant rules.

1) R21.2 only applies when a boat is actually taking a penalty turn.
2) R44.2 cannot be broken. A boat can only not comply with R44.2 and not get exonerated for the original rule breach.
3) A boat does not have to spin if penalised. They can choose top spin, protest or do nothing. No rule requires them to do anything. Their choice of what they do then dictates what happens next, whether they get exonerated DSQ'ed or whatever.

Aloha.

No further interest - closed as ruled

Ok. Didn't see this. Sorry about that.

No problem tgs0. I hope you got the PM that I asked Beigel to send to you about this protest.

Unfortunately here you break rules 10 and 11 with different boats so broke 2 different rules in 2 different incidents. You do not exonerate before crossing the line and then only exonerate with one spin. So you get a DSQ in this race.

Have a read of the ruling post above to see a full explanation of all the rules breaches in these incidents:

www.sailx.com/forum/19-protests/92650-be...omply-with-442#93651

If you have any questions please ask. We will do our best to help.

Aloha!