Hey all,

So at t=124.8 Whiskey initiates tack.

At t=125.0 Big starts a bare away towards Whiskey.

At t=126.0 contact is made and Whiskey has passed through the eys of the wind.

The system gives penalty to Big, but Whiskey presses t and spins to exonerate.

Kind regards,

Whiskey.

I just continue to fall off from my tack, there is no rule that says I must stop turning at Close Hauled. He is also tacking back at me before I complete my tack.

actually bigtwingGuy, there is. you become ROW boat when Whiskey passed HTW and continue to alter down at him. He was keeping clear but your alteration causes contact.

BigTwingGuy Breaks R16.1 IMO

I agree.

Upon second look, at 125.2 when Whiskey is at HTW, it seems collision is imminent. Although BigTwingGuy does make another alteration of course, it could be argued that Whiskey would have broken R13 regardless (which would be unfortunate because judging by his response, It does not seem as though BigTwingGuy understands the rules behind the incident)

I was just about to do a quick tack, after realising my slow tack would not make it.

IMO, it's B's. i can understand he headed down to make the pin on whiskey. Whiskey is subject to R13. HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!! as RoW boat B is required to hold her course as per R16.1 and R16.2(the link in your signature really helps frodo!) but mainly 16.2. trim.on, i think you need some glasses buddie;)

I agree with Jfleets 2nd comment I really do not think my course change was the ultimate cause for the collision.

Whiskey,
If you were going to quick tack before his last small alteration of course, what stopped you from still trying the quick tack? That way, you would have proved that you could have avoided before BigTwingGuy's last alteration of course

This is a totally subjective opinion. It is a judgement call this one.


** Large version **

2 screen grabs from 125.2 and 125.7, the points at which W passes HTW, and just before the collision. I also superimposed a boat at the position I think BTG would have been in had he not dialed down (put in some leeway and maybe slightly underestimated forward progress).

To me, the tacking boat had a 60:40 chance of avoiding the non-altered BTG. Had the tacking boat changed to a fast tack between HTW and CHC, I'd go up to 80:20 for the tacking boat avoiding.

So, I'd give this against BTG 16.1. Whiskey has the knowledge and skill to pull off this advanced move if he had to. I also prefer penalising the ROW boat in these aggressive close quarter moves as this offsets some of the lag that both boats commonly experience - that is, the ROW boat must be sure of not breaking 16.1 by manoeuvring earlier, or less aggressively whilst ROW.

Jfleet wrote:
.Whiskey,
If you were going to quick tack before his last small alteration of course, what stopped you from still trying the quick tack? That way, you would have proved that you could have avoided before BigTwingGuy's last alteration of courseJ, I honestly don't believe that this is relevant because BTG's dial down made Whiskey's option of 'change to fast tack' entirely irrelevant, and hence there was no reason to try. Add to that the 'deer in headlights' that the tacking boat will feel, there was no time to react, and no reaction would have averted the collision.

I am a tacking boat in this too, Whisky is tacking back at me before I complete my tack. I only become the ROW boat because of Whisky's tack.

Hey all,

thank you for all your comments. Bigneil thank you for that image, IMO, that clarifies that I would have most likely kept clear if Big had nt altered.

In other protests, a sailors experience is held against him, but as you say, I would have normally been able to pull this move off and with that should be given the benefit of the doubt this time.

Its the committee decision though.

Thank you and good sailing.

Whiskey.

"To me, the tacking boat had a 60:40 chance of avoiding the non-altered BTG." If you feel this way with only a 10% edge going to the Whisky, how do you agree to pen the ROW boat.

BigTwingGuy wrote:
.I am a tacking boat in this too, Whisky is tacking back at me before I complete my tack. I only become the ROW boat because of Whisky's tack.Technically, Whiskey is ROW until 125.2, the point at which he passes head to wind. You complete your tack before he passes HTW, so your tack is largely irrelevant.

Also, any bear away by you before he passes head to wind is not really relevant because you are give way boat, so as long as you avoid him you can do what you like.

The only important bit is...did your bear away give the other
boat room to keep clear (from the moment he passed head to wind)?

BigTwingGuy wrote:
."To me, the tacking boat had a 60:40 chance of avoiding the non-altered BTG." If you feel this way with only a 10% edge going to the Whisky, how do you agree to pen the ROW boat.


You make a fair point Big.

If this was on the water you would have been thrown out certainly due to the presence of R14, where aggression like this is not needed, but you can get away with more on the virtual water.

IMO the screen shot does show that I could have crossed behin dyour stern and that you (this time) were a little to aggressive on the bare away.

NB. The rules engine thought this also at the time, which is usually a good indicator.

Whiskey.

BigTwingGuy wrote:
."To me, the tacking boat had a 60:40 chance of avoiding the non-altered BTG." If you feel this way with only a 10% edge going to the Whisky, how do you agree to pen the ROW boat.Well, you have to make a judgement, or you can cop out and penalise boat boats (16.1 and 13). I edge it just in his favour assuming no fast tack was used. And, had he converted to a fast tack, I edge it much more.

But, because he spun, you can largely ignore whether 13 was broken because it was exonerated either way. So, did BTG break 16.1 is the only real question.

It is a subjective call. It is 2 Brits vs 2 Yanks, so maybe a Swiss or neutral mod should decide this (I appreciate some inter-team rivalry will surface during this competition!)!

Ok, I still see this as Rule 16 against BTG. And I'm neither a yank or a brit