Diegary has trouble with another boat at leeward mark hjowever even allowing for this he does not react quickly enough to avoid Poesje thus he breaks Rule 11.

System Info:Poesje was given a pen at t=233 (RE:Rule 16.1 - Changing course, room).    Poesje raised the P flag at=237.  Poesje span at t=256.    


pen: protester
spin: protester

I was trying to avoid the other boat (Pepelovigne) and reacted as fast as I could. The boat don't turn fast enough in a situation like that, as I tried to avoid Poesje also.
As I said, was trying to do my best, Pepelovigne took too much room for his rounding and I tried to protest but couldn't (since I wasn't awarded a penalty, I couldn't find his name on the list when trying to protest).
Anyway, it comes down to wether I did my best to avoid everybody. I did. But I'm not sure wether I'm right or not.
If anybody else thinks I wasn't doing my best, I can retire or accept DSQ.
Sincerely,

Diego

Diegaray,

Thanks for the explanation - sounds ago with me, I am content to leave it there if a mod cares to agree and close this one?

Poesje

Pepelovigne takes too much room. diegaray is avoiding him. Poesje must give him room. When P luffs, D luffs and cannot keep clear.

Poesje breaks Rule 16.1

Frodo,

please read my previous post. I got the pen and spun. i do not agree with your analysis and will argue if you wish - it is very close and therefore a judgement call that is not worth pursuing. Will you please do as i suggested and just close it as withdrawn, uncontested or unresolved please?

I concur with Frodo.

Decision:
Poesje breaks R16.1 & exonerates - Protest Dismissed.

Aloha!

For what its worth I do not agree - Poesje leaves plenty of room and starts a measured round up. Diegaray unexpectedly takes a huge change in course and fails to correct quickly enough. Split second before the point of contact it looked as though Diegaray would meet her onligation to keep clear. Poesje as ROW had every right to expect her so to do. In the event Diegaray straightens out for a second allowing the faintest of touches with the end of her boom. Diegaray was keep clear boat, Diegaray did not round up after the collision as hard as she could have or initially looked like she was doing. You cannot say Poesje did not leave enough room!

Frodo the point of collission is while Poesje rounds or heads up - this is not luffing!

Hi Poesje,

This is simple and clear.

When you change course you must give the other boat/s room to keep clear of your course change.
You luff up towards Diegaray and luff too fast for him to have any way to keep clear of your course change.

Diegaray has been trying to give room to Pepe. So you must give room to Diegaray WHEN YOU CHANGE COURSE.
This has nothing to do with what occurs before you luff.
It is all about when you luff. That you must give room for Diegaray to be able to keep clear of your luff (course change).
You luff continuosuly until there is no way Diegaray can avoid you by any means at all.
He does not delay or stop his luff to keep clear. He is just unable to match or turn tighter than you, as inside windward boat.

FYI - Heading up is luffing...

Poesje - you clearly and without any doubt break R16.1 here. I am glad you spun to exonerate.

Aloha!

Your the Mod so you will rule but I disagree with most of your analysis.

it is simple but a very close call

it is not clear that Diegary did all he could to fulfil his obligations it is a close call but I think he could have avoided and remained seamanlike

luffing and heading up having very similar effects but different meanings (hence different words)

there is a clear and definable gap in his jerks to windward without which the collision would not have occurred - there are limitations on Sailx so this call is close and debatable but in my view there was time to avoid

the massive pile up inside had a dramatic effect on events and I was clearly anticipating problema and attempting to leave lots of room - the inside collission was the significant event and not my fault.

Without the mm x mm replay i do not beleive any jury would convict in these circumstances

With the mm x mm replay it is a judgement call but a very close call I think I have the right and he was slower than he should havbe been (I do not attribute blame for such a minor infringement). I accepted he tried his best and I wanted to leave it at that but I do not want to be told I am clearly guilty and do not think I am. I accept others might judge the other way and know that no mod will now overule the 2 who have posted, so be it. I don't agree but think that if I was called wrong on this one I would still disagree but understand the other view. i cannot agree that the replay shows clearly and obviously that I was wrong.

Poesje wrote:
.Frodo,

please read my previous post. I got the pen and spun.

Please read MY previous post and tell me what the problem is. I say you break Rule 16. I'm not DSQ'ing you for it...



i do not agree with your analysis and will argue if you wish

Of course you don't agree. You filed this AGAINST diegaray. Why would you agree to have been the one who broke the rule?? And besides, there is always one party that disagrees in a protest. That is the nature of a protest!



- it is very close and therefore a judgement call that is not worth pursuing. Will you please do as i suggested and just close it as withdrawn, uncontested or unresolved please?

No need. It's been ruled on by 2 mods both of whom say you were in the wrong. So we can close this as resolved.





Poesje wrote:
.For what its worth I do not agree

Again, so is the nature of a protest. Why would you agree to being called wrong in a protest you filed.



Poesje leaves plenty of room and starts a measured round up.

He is also heading up and avoiding another boat, then there is a collision with you when you are luffing. Therefore, not enough room.



Diegaray unexpectedly takes a huge change in course and fails to correct quickly enough.

When does this "unexpected huge change in course" happen??



Split second before the point of contact it looked as though Diegaray would meet her onligation to keep clear.

No it didn't. Rounding that close was always going to result in a collision if you didn't slow down.



Poesje as ROW had every right to expect her so to do.

..... Provided you comply with Rule 16.1



In the event Diegaray straightens out for a second allowing the faintest of touches with the end of her boom.

The faintest of touches is still a touch. The RRS don't differentiate between the force of collisions like that.. If you touch, you touch. End of.



Diegaray was keep clear boat, Diegaray did not round up after the collision as hard as she could have or initially looked like she was doing.

diegaray had another RoW boat to avoid.



You cannot say Poesje did not leave enough room!

We just did, and you didn't.



Frodo the point of collission is while Poesje rounds or heads up - this is not luffing!

same thing. You are doing the same thing in each of those.




Poesje wrote:
.Your the Mod so you will rule but I disagree with most of your analysis.

Again, why would you agree..




it is simple but very close

Contradictory?




it is not clear that Diegary did all he could to fulfil his obligations it is a close call and I don't think he did

It is clear to us..




luffing and heading up having very similar effects but different meanings (hence different words)

Does it matter?? Are you just trying to nit pick?? They are virtually the same thing.




there is a clear and definable gap in his jerks to windward without which the collision would not have occurred

Because he has another boat to avoid!




the massive pile up inside had a dramatic effect on events and I was clearly anticipating problema and attempting to leave lots of room - the inside collission was the significant event and not my fault.

Your collision with diegaray was your fault.




Without the mm x mm replay i do not beleive any jury would convict in these circumstances

Well lucky for us, we have that replay and we have "convicted." And I don't see why a jury without a racelet wouldn't find the same result.




With the mm x mm replay it is a judgement call but a very close call

Poesje breaks Rule 16.1...




I think I have the right and he was slower than he should havbe been.

Really?! Picking at straws now! Where in the rules does it say that "a boat not sailing at her maximum possible speed at all times receives no protection under the RRS." Come on poe!




I accepted he tried his best and wanted to leave it.

<bangs head off wall>

Then why are you still going on about it!? If you are saying he did his best to avoid, then that is all he can do. He cannot do better than his best. If this is his best, he cannot do better. good -> better -> best -> bester?!
BEST!




I accept others might judge the other way and know that you will so be it. I don't agree but think that being called wrong is reasonable on this one.

Again, then why are you still arguing it?!



Your tone and ruling that it is glaringly obvious and one sided i find bizarre and I am offended by it.

Well that is the way we see it. How else do we look at it. You luffed / headed up / rounded up into a boat and he could not avoid, by your own admittance! You break Rule 16.1!




Right, this is just getting silly. I'm closing this protest as ruled.



Poesje breaks Rule 16.1, but spins to exonerate. Protest Dismissed.

The End.

Poesje,

One final answer for you. Sorry I do not mean to be disrespectful.

If I was on a jury in the real world hearing and a boat told me that they tried to luff up to avoid a ROW leeward boat that was luffing, but even doing all they could, contact still occurred, I would "convict" as you say, the ROW boat for a breach of R16.1 just as I have here.

A ROW boat MUST give room to the other boat to keep clear of her course change.

How many times must we tell you before you realise that you cannot just luff up into a windward boat that is doing all she can to keep clear. Remember that Room is the space she needs. Obviously she needed more space than you gave her.

I watch the replay but I do not see any of this "hesitation" by Diegaray that you mention. I see a boat react promptly to your course change and, continuously without stopping, luff to try to keep clear.

This incident is not even a close call. It is very clear to both Frodo and I that you broke R16.1. Of course you are free to your own opinion, but I respectfully ask that in the future you try to give more room to keep clear boats that are trying their best to keep clear.

Aloha!

My Opinion:

Poesje breaches rule 16.1 but spins to exonerate.
Protest Dismissed.